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Wisdom's Whisper's avatar

A window into a mindset that most of us could never fathom, and yet, we all know this to be true. We're seeing it in real time. The horror, the denial, the heartlessness of all of it. If you weren't such an empath, Tom, you'd be unable to sense into this character. I can't imagine it was easy for you to go there, to hold that energy to finish the piece. An important piece. Dark times. Dark reality.

Tom Joad's avatar

I am not trying to make anyone hate federal employees. That would be absurd. What I am doing is watching what happens when power moves without accountability, when language is polished over blood and procedure is treated as morality. Institutions are not people, but they shape what people do. That is not a judgment on hearts; it is an observation of patterns.

I have never claimed that all ICE agents are sociopaths. I have, however, written about what happens when the machinery of the state is allowed to operate in the open, unchecked, and when words are used to erase consequences. That is not a stereotype. It is fact. The lives disrupted, the families broken, the people killed,all of that exists outside rhetoric.

Empathy is not an abstraction. It does not belong solely to those who wear uniforms or sit behind desks. It belongs also to the people who suffer while we debate orders and intent. The moral economy is askew if we reserve sympathy for those with power and ignore those without it.

As for borders and parties: the narratives are simple, and simplicity is comforting. Reality is never simple. Enforcement and humanity are not mutually exclusive, unless we allow them to be. Responsibility does not vanish because someone follows orders. It does not belong solely to a party, a president, or a voter. It belongs to all of us who watch, who look away, who decide what is tolerable.

I am writing about outcomes, not intentions. About what happens in the world, not what we tell ourselves about it. Discomfort is a signal. It is often the first, and sometimes the only, indication that we are seeing something true.

Wisdom's Whisper's avatar

Discomfort is a signal. That we need to sit in it, to process that discomfort until truth reveals itself.

I fear we've become a society that doesn't read beyond a headline. What's the average attention span these days with social media so prevalent? Flash wins, not depth, and the truths seem always to be buried.

Intention and attention are scarce commodities, yet you elicit both from your community here, Tom. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's uplifting. Yet, it's always comforting to know you're all here. To sit in our discomfort together.

Sally J's avatar

“What I am doing is watching what happens when power moves without accountability”

You mean when President Biden redefined the word “sex” to include the opposite sex? So mediocre male athletes could beat the crap out of female athletes? So proto gay and lesbian kids could be convinced to screw up their bodies to the benefit of transitioning profiteers? So that male rapists could be placed in female prisons, raping women trapped with them?

So men could legally enter female changing rooms and showers and creep on women and children?

Have you held Democrats to account for the destruction of women's rights? Maybe I missed those articles from you. Or are you one of those guys who is hoping women someday get used to seeing “female penises” in our shower so that you can also force your way in? A lot of liberal men are just biding their time until women accept them in our showers. Not gonna happen dude. We'll never stop fighting for the right to exclude perverts from female spaces, and that includes men like you who stand to benefit from not supporting our right to privacy, safety and dignity. Go pay for it at the local t!ttie bar with the rest of the losers.

Tom Joad's avatar

I have seen evil. I believe this is evil.

Liberaldad's avatar

That was a hard to read. Amazing work but difficult for me to accept that people think like this.

Wisdom's Whisper's avatar

It hurts my heart to know you've seen evil, sending a gentle hug.

Yes, I believe this is evil too. Beyond any kind of evil I've ever seen.

Tom Joad's avatar

“Seeking clicks."

Yeah, no shit. It's the internet. What did you think I was seeking,a Pulitzer?

You know what doesn't fight the oligarchy? Writing that nobody reads. You know what the powerful actually fear? Not your perfect critique of "both sides." They fear people paying attention. They fear enough people seeing the pattern that it becomes undeniable.

So yeah, I write to be read. I put the hook up front. I make it sharp enough that you can't scroll past. You call that clickbait. I call it doing my fucking job.

And this "both sides" horseshit,let me be clear: that's not analysis. That's surrender with intellectual pretensions.

Yeah, the oligarchy plays both sides. Congratulations on discovering that water is wet. Now what? You want me to write 3,000 words explaining that powerful people benefit from power? That's not brave. That's a college sophomore's term paper.

The "both sides" argument is where you go when you want to sound smart without actually opposing anything. It's the perfect excuse to never commit, never name names, never take a position that might cost you something. You get to feel superior to everyone while doing exactly nothing.

"Oh, they're ALL corrupt",okay, great. So we do... what? Shake our fists at the sky? Waiting for some imaginary moment when the system reforms itself?

Meanwhile, actual people are making actual decisions that produce actual consequences. And pretending that naming those people and those decisions is somehow less enlightened than your grand unified theory of everything,that's not wisdom.That's just cowardice with a reading list.

You want to know what brings people together? A common enemy. You know what doesn't? Vague gestures at "the oligarchy" that carefully avoid pissing anyone off or identifying any specific villain.

So yeah, keep waiting for that perfect unifying message. I'll be over here seeking clicks and naming names.

-Tom

Valence's avatar

Way to go, man.

Don’t want to run into that one.

Sally J's avatar

OK, then find a way to take down the Democratic Party. Trump will destroy his own without our help. How many more decades do you think we can flip flop between parties, as our country becomes more and more polarized and wars for profit suck the money out of our pockets?

Be the next MLK and help people realize that we need to stop fighting each other and band together and create five or six more parties. A few of them will push open borders, like the Green Party does. Letting people walk into our country is foolish. It hurts blue collar workers like my black relatives. Yet it seems like some of your readers still support illegal immigration. Maybe they think they're being kind. Or maybe they like getting cheap labor for housecleaning and yard work.

I don't shake my fist at the sky. I'll be at the Supreme Court next week supporting women's rights. If we lose, I will convince women to give up girls and women's sports and create something new called female. If males (and Democrats) take that word from us, we'll walk away and create a sports category for "large gamete developmental pathway athletes." No amount of “performing woman” will get a man into that category. So men will be in the male category and men and boys will dominate the female category and we'll make something new for real females. Maybe some of your readers think they're being kind to men who wish they were women. Or maybe they're just afraid of being called a bad name. But if Democrats come back to power and continue the destruction of women's sports, we'll just make something new, even if it means we'll have an unfunded category for our daughters and granddaughters.

That's how important women's rights are to those of us who left the Democratic Party over this issue. We will NEVER accept men perving on us and our children in the shower. Why don't you come to DC on Tuesday and write an article on the strength and perseverance of the small number of women willing to risk their careers by standing up for women's rights. We are courageous and bold and we will never give up. We're a lot more interesting than your fictitious bad guy ICE agent.

Sally J's avatar

Way to make people hate federal employees, Tom. What an empath you are! You figured out exactly how to push TDS buttons to make people feel even more hatred of "the other."

Make sure in your next article you convince your gullible readers that all or most ICE agents are sociopaths like the imaginary one you just made up. It's important to create and reinforce negative stereotypes if you want to ensure our elected Democrats go back to promoting rampant illegal immigration the next time they are empowered to manage, or not manage, our border security. I should send you a hug to help you with all of your insider knowledge of what is in the hearts of the people who work for ICE.

Tell me again who's responsible for the problems we're facing? The guy who ordered the removal of illegal aliens or the party that promotes open borders?

Kay-El's avatar

The guy who’s removing people without due process and relishes calling people scum.

Sally J's avatar

I despise Trump. He's greedy and corrupt and incredibly stupid. But Democrats with TDS are so simple minded that they are easily convinced by their manipulative left wing media bubble and articles like Tom's that federal employees MUST be psychopathic murderers. Because ... Truuuummmmpppp! Take a breath and wait to see what the evidence reveals when this case ends up in court.

I'm a lifelong Democrat who didn't vote for either D or R in 2024. Biden broke our border and decimated women's rights. Kamala agreed that males should be prioritized above females and brown illegal aliens should be brought into our country to take jobs from black and white working class Americans. I don't think my black relatives will ever vote for Democrats again having lost good construction jobs to illegal aliens transported to their communities by the federal government.

Dems damaged women's rights even worse. I played girls sports before Title IX was passed, back when high schools refused to pay our coaches or give us a bus for games. We had to stuff 9-10 girls into our mom's station wagons to get to games (pre-seatbelt laws, apparently). We rode our bikes home from school after practice because the bus had already left to take the boys home after THEIR practice, which was right after school let out. Girls got to use the the school facilities AFTER the boys, which means it reeked of adolescent boys and left us with no transportation home. But hey, at least they “let us” play sports.

Then Title IX passed. What an enormous boost for the 50% of our population that is female. Not only did schools have to pay our coaches and provide equipment (no more “bake sales for basketballs” for the girls team), we immediately got more improvements to women's rights. Five years after Title IX passed, my mother could get her own credit card without my father's permission. Woowee. A year after that, men who were raping their wives could be charged with a crime. Wow.

Then along comes the Democratic Party with politicians beholden to the massive LGB groups that we created to fight for same-sex marriage. Those groups delivered millions of voters to Dem candidates, and in return, Democrats gave them millions of dollars. We grew those organizations as we fought city by city, state by state for equal rights. Except we ended up getting same-sex marriage rights through a Supreme Court decision.

Whoops, the employees of those organizations were not about to lose their jobs just because we accomplished our biggest goal. So they retooled to push male rights above female and rebranded as lgbTQIA2S+P. Yes, the lowercase lgb is intentional, as these groups promote “transing away the gay.” The P stands for pedophiles, a bunch of scummy men who lesbians had been keeping out of our gay prides and organizations for decades, but who gained easy access once we went off to get married and raise families. The TQ-crazy took over and started promoting the rights of MAPs, minor attracted person. Yuck.

Obama established the rights of men to get public funding to pretend to be women (“life saving medicine” such as free boobs on a male chest started with Obamacare). Biden clinched the destruction of women's rights by changing the definition of the word “sex” in established law, including the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Biden redefined it to include gender identity so that men who wish they were women would be treated as if growing your hair longer or putting on a dress or makeup magically changes your male sex to female. Today, Republicans stand up for the female category in athletics, women's right to privacy, safety and dignity in female showers, bathrooms and prisons and of course, child safeguarding.

Why do Democrats support child transitioning? Because transition profiteering companies fund their campaigns. Why don't Republicans support destroying kids' endocrine systems and chopping off their body parts? Because they haven't been bribed yet. That's right – Yet. Because when it comes to the ultra wealthy enriching themselves at the expense of the rest of us, we have a Uniparty. Perpetual wars for profit? Both parties. Tax breaks for the rich? We empowered Dems to reverse Trump's signature legislation from his first term, the billionaire tax break. Did the Party of the People stop the theft of middle and working class earnings getting sucked into the hands of the rich? Of course not. Big. Fat. Liars.

So get over your TDS, get out of your left wing media bubble and start thinking for a change. You're getting duped.

And Tom – you should be ashamed of yourself for seeking clicks from people already lizard-brain triggered by the idiot in the white house. Why don't you put your skills to some good and write articles that bring us together to fight the ever increasingly powerful oligarchy that benefits from politicians on both sides of the aisle.

Churchlady320's avatar

Oh, stop - Dems did no harm to anyone at all. Just blather.

Kay-El's avatar

The only people with TDS are Trump supporters. How did I suspect you’re a kook? Your TERF language and “uniparty”. Dead giveaways.

Sally J's avatar

Hahaha, another insult. TDS alert!

I'm not a TERF. I'm male exclusionary. I don't care if a man performs woman or not, I don't want him in my shower. I don't think the convicted male rapists who claimed a female status to get into my state's female prisons and then raped more women are doing a very good job of pretending to be women. If they were, they wouldn't have sexually harassed and raped women in the female prisons.

In fact, in Democratic-led states, they don't have to even pretend to be female. Every male who wants to can use the YMCA female shower like his own personal free t!ttie bar.

So maybe I'm a MERF. Male exclusionary.

Although it's not particularly Radical to not want creepy men near naked women and children. So maybe I'm just a MEF.

But do you have to be a Feminist to realize that a percentage of men are despicable pigs? Oh, oh, there goes another letter from your insult.

I guess it's ME and millions of other women who have run into the worst of the worst men and know how dangerous they are. Maybe you're more affluent and too privileged to have experienced them. But surely you know that child porn is a multi BILLION dollar industry. That's not just a couple of men. You're not so naive that you don't know about child sex trafficking, are you?

But I'll tell you what we can do for you. We'll reestablish sex-based rights while Trump is in office. Then we'll make a special shower for idiot women who haven't figured out that percentage of horrible men exist. You can “be kind” and shower with them. By the way, if you're older or overweight, don't expect them to be respectful when they describe to their buddies what it was like to force their way into the female shower. I've heard men say things like, “I say these great big boobs. I just wish they were on a skinny 17 year old instead of an old, fat lady.” But you can pretend to yourself they're just hurt people who need access to your body in order to feel good. Have fun!

How do we know that so called “transwomen” are NOT women? Because crime data shows that pretending to be a woman and even taking estrogen does not change men's propensity to sexual violence. But this isn't even about people who label themselves as transgender. It's about that proportion of men who are ugly, cruel pigs toward women. It's about pedophiles and porn-addled AGP fetishists who get a hard on putting on female clothing. Have fun getting naked with them in your special “be kind” shower. We'll let you back into the female shower when you finally figure it out.

Churchlady320's avatar

Who promotes open border? Nobody. What we promote is conformity with the principles that established this country. Everyone here, from the Irish to the Venezuelans, has always had the right to be considered of value and given due process to determine if they can stay. To throw that away for fake "order" is evil.

All the mayors of all the towns at the border know the lies about immigrants are just that - lies. Dems built systems like those of our forebearers - Ellis Island type processing. It has greatly reduced those needing to wade the Rio Grande. But along come the fearful people spouting "replacement theory" and we're back to the 1850s on when mobs burned out the Irish, confined them to "The Acre", shoved Italians into Hell's Kitchen. Called the Slavs 'scum'. There were no closed borders to them just hate at the end. And we learned from it. We grew from it. And now we want the 1850s back. Why?

You clamoring to cut cane, use a short handled hoe that breaks your back? Want to roof in 110 degree days, no water breaks, no shade rest? Help yourself. Nobody's stopping you. You don't like they speak other languages among themselves? Who cares? They aren't talking to you. ICE are not government employees. They are contractors not law enforcement. We hired them to be evil. I guess that's OK with you. Even if it's some of your neighbors getting killed and maimed. Guess America doesn't mean a thing just so you can feel superior.

Sally J's avatar

Wow, you erroneously believe that I:

Believe in the replacement theory

Want to go back to the 1850s

Don't like that some people speak other languages

Want government employees to be evil

Want my neighbors killed and maimed

You love your stereotypes, don't you. Do I also drive a truck with a shotgun in the back window. Do I wear a red hat?

Your description of me is as fanciful as Tom's psychopathic killer/child rapist.

You don't know me. And you apparently have a reading comprehension problem. But maybe it's easier for you to insult me than to address the problems I've described.

For the record, the Biden Administration secretly flew illegal aliens into our country in the middle of the night, had those people (primarily men between the ages of 18-35, not doe-eyed little kids who need our help) disembark the planes, go on secretly contracted buses to special housing, helped them sign up for programs such as SNAP (free food), Obamacare (free Medicaid), free housing and other freebie programs. They were then transported to other parts of the country. If you weren't stuck in your left wing media bubble, you'd know about these tax funded importation of illegal workers. Although they were mostly flown into NY, they took jobs from black construction workers in the south. Your great replacement theory fails.

Has it occurred to you that if you don't empower Democrats to promote more illegal immigration, you won't have to be upset at the next round of suffering that is bound to occur when the NEXT crop of illegal aliens is removed from our country?

Churchlady320's avatar

Sally if your desire is to abolish the Dems and you hate Trump, my conclusion has to be you're a delusional DSA type who is also racist and xenophobic. I was DSoc years back - your rant is their rant, and it's vile. If you aren't, you're a white supremacists. They are, by the way, indistinguishable. The crap you write about Dems is dead wrong. The rants are anti American, and you have no cred here because of it all. Let me clue you in on the "flying in" of people. One, they were NOT undocumented but had entry papers. Two - Abbott and DeSantis dumped them via planes and buses in Blue cities to screw with the Dems. Three - having a shitload of vulnerable people who had nowhere else to go, the Administration provided CITIES not individuals with money and help to house and feed them. I wish we'd had the indifference to haul the GOVERNORS on tumbrels to the stocks if not the guillotines, but we did not. Every single thing you say is a flip of reality. Thus you build an argument based on your own racism to pillory Biden when you should be bashing Abbott and DeSantis. We have no interest in your lies or your bigotry. You are DEAD wrong on every point. Nothing left to say.

Sally J's avatar

Don't forget to put a red hat on your stereotype of me. Classic woke response – waah waah waah racist! Waah waah waah xenophobic! Waah waah waah white supremicist.You cannot justify bad policies so you attack and insult me for not agreeing with your foolish, uneducated opinion based on erroneous information from the left wing media bubble.

You should talk to my black relatives who now know what happened because they're beginning to get their jobs back and are working with the remaining people who have not self-deported. These black and white Americans are not field hands, they're skilled laborers. They'll want to know why you think it's OK to screw them out of their jobs by importing people from other countries.

“a shitload of vulnerable people who had nowhere else to go”

What an idiotic thing to say. There are 7-8 billion vulnerable people in the world who would be happy to get freebies from Americans.

I propose we give them YOUR job instead of blue collar workers' jobs. In fact, you should give up your house to one of those poor, suffering people, just to be kind. Let's give millions of them houses that belong to US liberals/progressive/Democrats. Let's give them college seats by removing the children of libs/progs/Dems. Let's take away your retirement plan and give it to them because we can all see how much you want to prove you're kinder than someone who knows how stupid it is to allow illegal immigration and importation of people to destroy the livelihood of Americans.

Put your money where your mouth is. There are billions of suffering people in the world. Those of you who intend to vote for Democrats AGAIN should give up your jobs and homes first.

Churchlady320's avatar

If you're DSA you wouldn't be a Red Hat, so get over yourself. You are so narrowly focused you are a party of one - you. That is of no interest since what you say is factually untrue and solipsistic. You are dull in your obsessions. We don't need to read you since your comments benefit only Sally.

Kay-El's avatar

If you weren’t stuck in your bigotry mindset, you’d know that undocumented workers contribute billions in taxes to our federal and state governments They also aren’t eligible for SNAP nor Medicaid (some states offer similar state funded programs). You may have been a Dem at some time in your life but you fell prey to misinformation at some point and are now just parroting Fox News type propaganda

Sally J's avatar

Again with the insults and inane media bubble misinformation.

There are millions of illegal aliens receiving free healthcare and food benefits in our country. You should have to pay the entire bill by selling your house and donating your salary or retirement. Stop making other Americans suffer for your misguided policies.

Please list the names of the illegal aliens who pay billions of dollars in taxes. The thousands I've worked with over the years get paid cash under the table. They are NOT paying income taxes. If you think they're contributing by paying sales taxes, that puny amount is nothing compared to the cost of their free healthcare, free food, free housing, free school for their kids, even free college since not paying income taxes means they can claim to be poor. What a gimmick.

Gosh, I'm such a bigot for not wanting to pay for your inane policies. I don't even want to pay for Russian illegal aliens. Thought I'd get that on the record before you called me racist.

I don't get information from Fox News. Unlike those of you who parrot your left wing media bubble talking points, I can think for myself.

Kay-El's avatar

Insults? You’ve expressed your bigotry all by your lonesome. Please enjoy stewing in it.

Wisdom's Whisper's avatar

I think we're getting tripped up within the paradox of tolerance. Karl Popper first popularized "tolerating intolerance" with his quote in 1945 in response to the horrors that you'd think we would have learned from. Because tolerating intolerance enables evil. And this administration is willfully condoning it. Through their actions. And their language - reframing the rhetoric as continual horrors unfold.

It's the behavior that is hateful here. Evil, one could say. Are you aware of the statistics of how many innocents spent months in detention, without criminal records, without being "illegal". Many had status here, they locked up permanent residents and even citizens without cause. Harming families. Only a handful of the hundreds they locked up for months actually had criminal records. Some died in detention as a result of neglect toward their existing medical conditions. No humanity whatsoever was on display toward fellow human beings.

The behavior needs to be called out. We're all witnessing the consequences, most recently with the death of Renee Nicole Good. A citizen. A mother. A person who was trying to get out of their way. Not only illegal. Immoral. Unconscionable.

How can anyone with eyes that see the videos condone this killing? Or excuse the officer without allowing an investigation. Is it okay to tolerate this unjustified killing? Are you cool with it, then?

Gun violence is a terrible problem in this country. But law enforcement is supposed to be there to serve and protect. Who were they protecting. Who were they serving? Other than an administration that has sown so much fear, the agents are encouraged to set an example of fear themselves. That's the bigger agenda.

No one is saying that all agents are bad or evil. Some may be as terrified as the citizens watching ever escalating nightmares unfold as raids continue to terrorize communities.

No one in this feed is ever espousing hate of government workers.

Tom always speaks truth. Hard truths to be sure. But his endless research, and thoughtful narration bring light where there is darkness. And sometimes, to do this, he needs to fully expose the darkness.

I believe people in this thread are looking for peaceful solutions. And looking for community, for kindness. And for the simple fact that we need each other more than ever. All of us. Because in good time, the truth will be undeniable. Even to those that were supporting our new president. The center cannot hold under these conditions. Not within the country, and not on the world stage.

I'm not buying into the conspiracies that are driving all of the division. I do my research. I listen to trusted voices that aren't afraid to speak truth, even when it's hard. Even when a part of me would rather turn away. But I can't. We can't. We must bear witness and try to find actionable solutions to upholding the law, to upholding the very foundations of our union.

The majority of people, I believe, are good. But surely you can't deny that improprieties and willful manipulation of the truth exist on both sides. Not only the Dems. We advocate for minorities, for the oppressed - for a reason.

Because ‘Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice.’ — Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Come on. The courageous don't avoid hard truths. They use them as impetus to work toward making the world a better place for all. We're not living in a zero sum game. We can lift each other up without losing our own identities or comforts in life.

And I daresay, if everyone would realize this and act in ways that lifted society instead of padding wallets, violence could and would become a thing of the past. Greed seems to me to be the driving force for unrest in the world. Driving policy. Driving wars. Driving resentment and violence.

As much as I understand the reasons that propelled people to vote for what we're now seeing, I'm hoping that many will wake up to the fact that if we continue in this direction without being intolerant of the intolerance (and resultant unnecessary violence it is creating), we will one day, in the not too far future find that all of us in this country will be fearing some form of persecution - the very thing that brought these immigrants to our shores. The ones they're hell bent on destroying. Not even sending them to where they came from, instead preferring to find placement that will bestow torturous conditions.

I don't understand how anyone can continue to support any of this on any level. There's been way too much evidence that the cruelty is intended. Yet, immigrants are statistically less likely to commit crimes than citizens. There are studies readily available to those caring to look.

No one is against deporting aliens that have committed crimes, ones that could be a danger to society. But none of this has to be carried out with the kind of cruelty we've been witnessing. And the ones responsible for the cruelty should answer for it. No one is above the law. Human rights are for all humans. That protects you and me, all of us. As does due process.

And free speech allows us this little civil chat. Where we can agree to disagree, or at least make an effort to understand one another rather than lash out.

I wish you peace. And the same protections and safeguards that we "Dems" are fighting for in this moment. We do so for all Americans, not simply for ourselves.

Sally J's avatar

Make sure to vote for Democrats again so they can import millions more illegal aliens so Republicans can get reelected again to remove them, which will likely result in even more human suffering.

Then tell yourself you're the better person and definitely NOT responsible for the perpetual cycle bouncing between the Uniparty's D and R politicians for decades more.

You think you fight for all Americans? Tell that to my black relatives who will lose their jobs again if you elect another Dem president. By the way, they're skilled workers, not field hands. They've worked decades to get where they are. But Dem obsession with promoting illegal immigration has destroyed their careers. And you don't know which illegal alien will rape and choke to death the next college student or 13 year old kid walking home. But it sounds like you want to wait until those crimes are committed before deporting someone. I want illegal immigration stopped. Period. It's a stupid policy to allow anyone from anywhere in the world to walk into our country and stay here illegally.

The hard truth is that you and others will promote illegal immigration again by voting for Democrats who facilitate it and profit from it. Not stopping violent criminals from entering and living in our country means people here are hurt and killed. But that might not bother you. Maybe YOU aren't losing your job. Maybe it's not your kid or grandkid getting killed. Maybe you pretend they're all doe-eyed little children with hard working parents. Maybe you don't notice the drugs and child sex trafficking that comes along with illegal immigration.

It's also stupid to vote for politicians who take money from transitioning profiteers and willingly sacrifice our children for profits.

The hard truth is that those of us who fight corrupt Democrats don't have to pretend that Trump is a nice guy in order to understand what's wrong with our Democratic Party.

Those of us who fight for women's rights and child safeguarding don't have to like Trump to benefit from his willingness to stop child transitioning, to stop promoting the rights of males over females, to stop teaching white kids that their category makes them bad people, to stop telling gender nonconforming girls and boys they are defective and should screw up their bodies before they become gay, lesbian and bisexual adults.

Knowing that Trump is willing to help fix this problem doesn't mean I expect him to fight against the oligarchy. He's part of it. But so are elected Democrats. Please wake the eff up.

I'll ask again – who is responsible for the suffering caused by removing illegal aliens? They Party that is desperate to open the border again? Or the guy who ordered their removal from out country?

Wisdom's Whisper's avatar

Clearly, I have no idea as to the hurt and trauma that you've experienced in your life. Trauma that has shaped your beliefs, your mindset about life, and about humanity itself.

I do know that everything I've read from you here is filled with vitriol, hatred, and often contradictory arguments for the points you're trying to make.

No one forced you to read Tom's essay. You chose to, then further chose to hijack this thread, turning what it always a respectful collaboration of thoughts and reflection into a rant fest. Full of criticism and outright attacks on the character of Tom and others in this thread. Postering yourself as superior by trying to demoralize the rest of us.

I also know that the energy and attitude we express and put out into the world attracts the same back to us.

As in: Be kind. You never know what people are going through.

If you can't say anything nice, better to say nothing at all. That's what I was raised to believe. And where there's discord, at least be open to civil discussion. There are some tidbits within your rants here that I actually resonate with on some level. Why? Because life is complex. But the context of the delivery of those ideas has convinced me it's not worth the time, effort or patience to actually want to try to find mutual accord. A part of me, when I see pain in others, always wants to reach out. But no. Your original comment judged and pegged me and others as "gullibles". You don't belong here in this thread, that much is certain.

It's so unnecessary to bully others into seeing "your side" - which as you've mentioned isn't a "side" at all. It's a general dissatisfaction with life and humanity itself., especially men.

Perhaps if a part of you could look for the "good" somewhere within your field of view, you could rise out of the victim mentality, collaborate with others (gently) to find compromise, and truly become a force for good in the world.

But, not here. Not here in this respectful community. You've already done and said more than enough.

Sally J's avatar

My opinions are based on research, clear thinking and personal lived experiences. I'm not a traumatized, hurt little person. I'm just willing to question the validity of what most people accept from their media bubbles. I don't listen to what left or right wing commentators say about federal or state bills. I go read the bills.

My comments do not express vitriol or hatred. But since I disagree with many readers here, your dislike of my opinions is clouding your judgment. You want so very much to believe what you hear in your media bubble that you're unable to analyze what is happening. Many here have put their fingers are in their ears and covered their eyes. You don't WANT to hear what I'm saying, unless I say write you agree with: “Trump bad, therefore Democrats good.”

I've spent decades working on construction and other blue collar teams that were primarily comprised of illegal aliens. Those men are my friends and colleagues. I like them and wish them the best in their lives. If I was born in their country, I'd do the same thing they did – violate the law to break into the US. But that doesn't mean I support stupid policies. Caring about specific individuals does not make me abandon common sense when it comes to the law. Promoting illegal immigration is stupidly dangerous. So is pretending that if you know one “transwoman” who seems harmless, then all men who pretend to be women should be allowed in our spaces. That's just stupid.

I don't have a problem with men. Most of my best friends are men. I have a problem with that percentage of men who are despicable human beings, the men who rape when they think they can get away with it, the men who spend years enjoying porn that is violence against women and children. Those men have always existed and always will. You don't have to have experienced trauma to know about them. Child porn is a multi billion dollar industry. Children are sex-trafficked into our country via illegal immigration. If you don't know that, you are willfully ignorant.

Most of my blue collar colleagues are men. Liking my illegal alien colleagues or neighbors doesn't mean I'm foolish about the risks of illegal immigration, as I've outlined in numerous comments here.

Liking men doesn't mean I'm foolish about the risks of allowing male people to violate women's boundaries, our right to privacy, safety and dignity. This isn't about the transgender-identified males who don't use female showers or beat the crap out of girls and women in female sports. It's about the men who take advantage of “be kind” policies to violate our boundaries. Men who claim a female status to be transferred from a male to female prison, only to sexually harass and rape female prisoners. Yes, I have a problem with those men. And so should you.

I've been harsh in my comments, but someone needs to point out that a fake story based on a stereotype of a vicious man in law enforcement who would rape a 6 year old girl and murder people for pleasure doesn't help the polarized discourse on these issues. Either that man woke up and decided to murder an innocent woman who was just driving down the road, or she violated the law and put law enforcement employees at risk.

I implore you all to STOP listening to your media bubble and get the facts before you promote more misinformation. If the shooting in MN was illegal, then we need to fix that problem, not impede law enforcement and go back to allowing violent criminals to remain in our communities.

Tom is smart. I think he can do better than reinforcing phony stereotypes about ICE employees. I invite him to write about the women and men who will be standing up for girls and women's rights at the Supreme Court on January 13th. That would be an excellent use of his skills, and his reach on the internet. Or he could just ban me and you all can go back to your misinformation bubble where truth and reality don't interfere with your comfort.

Valence's avatar

Oh, please shut the fuck up.

Just move on

No one cares about your ass kissing.

I’m not mad. Bang bang. You’re dead.

Valence's avatar

Same for you.

Say nothing at all.

We are not here to listen to your whining

Neural Foundry's avatar

This nails how bureaucratic langauge becomes a weapon in itself. The way "subject expired on scene" erases an actual killing is brillaint and terrifying at the same time. I worked adjacent to law enforcment for a bit and the report writing culture is exactly this, turn everything into passive voice so nobody's actually responsible. The scariest part isnt the violence but how the system protects it by making it sound routine.

Tom Joad's avatar

Exactly. What you’re pointing out is the subtle machinery of erasure. Language doesn’t just describe reality,it shapes how we perceive it. “Subject expired on scene” isn’t neutral; it’s a shield. It turns an act of violence into a procedural note, a line in a report, and in doing so, it removes the human accountability behind it.

I’ve seen that same pattern in other bureaucracies: passive voice, euphemisms, metric‑obsessed reporting,all designed to flatten action into paperwork, and in that flattening, moral responsibility disappears. The real terror isn’t the moment of violence,it’s the slow normalization, the system’s ability to hide it in plain sight.

It’s brilliant, horrifying, and deeply human at the same time: brilliant in its efficiency, horrifying in its consequences. It’s why paying attention to language is itself a form of resistance.

John Schwarzkopf's avatar

That was a hard read. I've despised bullies since I was a kid, and unfortunately most law enforcement are bullies with badges. And I'm speaking from experience as I have numerous retired law enforcement in my family and have worked with many more. I don't know what the fucking answer is although I know how I'd like to handle these douchebags. We are reliving Nazi Germany in real time.

Tom Joad's avatar

It’s brutal to read, and I hear you. I’ve carried that same disgust for bullies since I was a kid. What makes it worse is seeing the pattern institutionalized, wearing a badge and calling it authority. You can’t unsee it once you’ve been close enough to know how deep it runs.

There isn’t a neat answer,there rarely is,but recognizing the machinery for what it is, refusing to look away, that counts for something. And yes, the parallels to history are chilling, but history also shows that human action, even small and quiet, can matter. Holding on to your anger, your clarity, is the first step toward figuring out what you will do when the time comes.

Patrick R's avatar

I don't know of a way to help a person like this, although I'm sure a way exists. I know only of one way, precisely one way, of handling them. Of preventing them from inflicting this sort of harm. I've made peace that I will, one day, be required to enact this one particular method of prevention.

I hate that this is where we are, but it is what it is.

Tom Joad's avatar

I think many of us have come to that realization.

Tony Scott's avatar

"This country doesn't change. It remembers."

God, I hate that that statement is true.

It is who we are.

Valence's avatar

“You won’t remember this, but your body will”

Very scary line

Jan Steinman's avatar

I sensed that in 2004, when I emigrated.

Kimberly Scott's avatar

That hurts. But I know him. I've met him a few times. I was in the Army. I saw him when he was born. Later I worked at the county jail. He was there--on both sides of the bars. Two sides of the same coin. I hated him. Still do, but I hate his new boss even more.

Tom Joad's avatar

It hurts because it’s real. You’ve seen him on both sides of the bars, shaped by the same system. Hating him makes sense,but his boss matters more. Power writes the script; individuals just play their part. Two sides of the same coin, but the coin keeps getting minted.

elba's avatar

Sincerely hope that was fiction...

Kay-El's avatar

My heart started pounding reading this even though I knew it was fiction. Still, it’s a hard read, knowing too many of these men are probably not far removed from this mentality.

Tom Joad's avatar

It’s a hard story to read.

Jane's avatar

Wonderful writing, but I hope your mind can erase what you wrote. You don’t need that horror to reside there for long. Thank you for always writing brilliantly.

Tom Joad's avatar

I’m not sure if I should forget these things or not.

Valence's avatar

At least, don’t keep it top of mind.

Bury it away until and unless you need that knowledge.

Compartmental.

Marciebp's avatar

It would be a pleasure to sink a 🚄 into that monster’s head.

Wisdom's Whisper's avatar

I blocked her in the end. She was yucking my yum, lol.

Should've ignored her from the start but Momma bear always comes out in me if someone attacks another. And I do believe we need to at least try to reach out now and then to try and bridge division. But then again, who wants a bridge to THAT? Geez. vile. And yet, everyone here showed restraint. Kudos, seriously.

Leslie Potter's avatar

Difficult read but sadly an accurate portrayal of these ICE animals. As I read the only emotion I felt was anger not fear. Thank you, Tom.

Tom Joad's avatar

Thank you!!🙏

Tom Joad's avatar

Thanks for reading!!

Leslie Potter's avatar

You are a gifted writer and a beautiful soul.

JBR's avatar

That's the most morbid evil story. !

Lori's avatar

Wow very dark truthful story. It really gives perspective on today’s ICE and border patrol the way they have always acted. Is this a part of your imagination or based on true story?

Tom Joad's avatar

It’s from my imagination but based on stories I’ve heard.

elba's avatar

Thanks for (eloquently) filling in the bloody details of what I just posted on The Plasticene.

Tom Joad's avatar

You are welcome!

Marilyn's avatar

Well written, creepy, powerful, disturbing. I am glad you realize most ICE agents are not sociopaths like your character. People are complicated, full of contradictions and quite able to deceive themselves and live in denial, but most humans are not as heartless and bloodless as your character. And to me, the fact that most agents are actually human, makes it even scarier. It would be comforting to think that only those who are pure evil could commit pure evil acts. Unfortunately history and social-psychology have shown that even people who are usually caring, can be turned into monsters with the right coercion, desperation, and brainwashing. Authoritarianism breeds obedience to even the darkest deeds, and that's just one more reason we must oppose the scourge of Fascism sweeping our nation. I am outraged by ICE, disgusted, demoralized by their actions, and I want to stop them, and particularly the "leaders" who created them, but stereotyping my enemies as less human than myself, is not going to help at all. If demonic acts were only committed by true demons, the world would be much safer.

I see from your comments we're on the same page about this. I think you did a good job of portraying the extreme., perhaps a personification of ICE itself.