One of the problems with befriending the Trump supporters is that they are victims of a delusion (as well as a grift, as evidenced by a thirty-dollar flag purchased by somebody who likely economizes on everything because of necessity).
Speaking with a delusional individual can be hazardous, especially when the delusion is Trump. Contradictions arise from everything the man does because there is no substance to him other than greed, venality, and psychosis (as well as increasing indicators of severe dementia), and when faced with contradictions a person suffering from a delusion is unpredictable.
The exception happens when there is a catastrophic event that affects everyone, such as the derecho that destroyed much of Cedar Rapids in 2020. In the midst of covid uncertainty and a conflict-filled election, neighbors came together to help one another. We had no cell service and no media (no electricity or internet at all for many days, in fact). Trees were down everywhere, roads were blocked, and nobody knew what to do except help one another. The differences dropped away.
I buy eggs and smoked fish from a guy who wears a Trump hat. I remarked about the cost of eggs, appreciating how his were reasonably priced. He said in all earnestness that "He is doing all He can to bring down prices." I did not argue with him. He was wearing one of the 100.00 Trump hats with gold and flag motifs, a had sold at tremendous profit. He was proud of it. His house is clearly tumble-down, with a rotting roof and debris all over the yard. He is in poor health with a severely swollen leg and terrible tooth decay, wheezing and limping.
We share common humanity, and I feel pity for him because he bought into this idea.
Even though it's clearly wrong, he doubles down on it. This is what happened in Japan with the myth of Yamato Damashi which brokered a fight to the death on tiny islands, and in Germany with the Übermensch and Lebensraum myths that allowed most Germans to turn a blind eye to genocide.
Humans are uniquely susceptible to poison ideas, and very slow to come around when they are definitively proven wrong.
You’ve articulated something essential about the danger and the tragedy of delusion. Once a person’s sense of identity becomes bound to a false story, the story can’t be questioned without threatening the self. The cruelty of the Trump mythology is that it preys on pain, on the very human need to feel seen and valued, then turns that need into a weapon.
What you describe about the derecho is what I keep coming back to as well: when the power went out, the illusions did too. Without the constant hum of outrage or the theater of belonging to one side or another, people simply responded to one another as neighbors. Stripped of the spectacle, we remembered how interdependent we actually are.
I think that’s the quiet work ahead,finding ways for people to meet again in that space before the stories start up, where decency and need speak a language older than
It is frustrating and ironic that we have a greater capability to connect with others than at any time in human history, and yet are becoming more and more isolated and disconnected from others outside our tribes.
such an interesting and thought-provoking article. It has changed my perspective on things already. There are some people we will never reach, but if we can find the connection with people different from us, if we can build that community, we can make things happen. As a matter of fact, I have a friend who supports Trump. However, he brings me groceries. He gave me a pack of Hillary Clinton playing cards a Kamala Harris mug and a Biden Harris hat he knows my views and I know his but for some reason they don’t seem to matter to us as friends we discuss community and we discuss Alcoholics Anonymous maybe that’s the difference we are in AA where we live by principles and 12 steps and have empty for each other's situations. When I went through a domestic violence situation he was there for me. His wife was there for me. They still are; they’re considered like family and yet we have completely different political views. Yet he knows I’m bisexual and knows I have pride flags in my yard and on my house and he brings me pride jewelry that he finds at thrift shops. So it is possible it is possible to connect.
You've done what I'm still trying to figure out how to do,you've actually stopped refusing. And the detail that hits hardest is him bringing you pride jewelry from thrift shops. He sees you. Fully. Disagrees with you politically and still sees you.
AA might be the key. You're both practicing principles that require acknowledging vulnerability, admitting you can't do it alone, showing up for each other in concrete ways. The 12 steps are literally a framework for connection that bypasses ideology,you're united by shared struggle and the daily choice to help each other survive it.
That's not a metaphor for politics. That's the actual thing. Mutual aid. Showing up with groceries. Being there during domestic violence. That's solidarity in its most real form, and it turns out political disagreement can coexist with it when the relationship is built on something deeper than opinions.
What strikes me is that he doesn't just tolerate your identity,he celebrates it. Brings you pride jewelry. That's not cognitive dissonance he's managing. That's him choosing you over his politics. Choosing connection over ideology.
You're right that some people we'll never reach. But you've proven the thing I was only theorizing about: when we stop refusing, when we actually build relationship through shared vulnerability and concrete mutual support, the political divisions don't disappear but they stop being the only thing that matters.
This gives me hope. Real hope, not abstract hope. Thank you.
I absolutely love that you shared this, Suzanne. Tangible proof that people can and do rise against their ideologies, a socially accepted bias that they might otherwise support. I, too, wish that the world vibrated to the energies of the 12 steps. That in acknowledging our own vulnerabilities, we're less likely to pull away from others out of fear. You and your friend are modeling the kind of courage that could heal a nation (a world in fact) in crisis. Well done, you :)
Thank you for your bravery in articulating something that has nagged at me for years, but could not put into words. This is a brave essay, one I’ll come back to a few times. Thank you
Thank you for such a kind and generous note. It means a lot that it resonated with you,sometimes we write just to give shape to what’s been quietly tugging at us for years. I’m grateful it found its echo in you.
Until a few years ago I could talk politics and religion with almost any of my family, friends, neighbors, etc. It was rarely a judgment conversation it was the sharing of dialogue and perspective. Now we’re in the ‘chicken or the egg theory’ of who doesn’t want to politely engage and there is no right answer regardless of who wants to point fingers where. I miss those days. I miss civility. I miss engagement.
This is profound. Thank you for making me uncomfortable. I need to be. Everything really comes down to a decision. We can’t wait for some things to feel right; we just need to decide. Even about the way we’ll respond to another’s decision.
Thank you for this. You’re right,so much of life really does come down to a decision. I often want to wait until I feelready, but the truth is, the deciding comes first, the feeling follows. And you’re right too about how we respond to others’ choices,that’s a decision as well. I’m grateful you said this, even if it stirs discomfort. It’s the kind of reminder I need.
My wife and I had a very interesting encounter at a meeting where several people approached us expressing admiration and sorrow over Charlie Kirk, the weekend right after he was killed. Neither of us had previous experience with that kind of face to face with supporters of "the other side", and my wife - a Black woman - was definitely not prepared for that.
We more or less tag-teamed part of the time, one of us taking a break in our room, while the other engaged with people. At one session, miraculously, people understood clearly where she was coming from, and she them. I didn't have to be there to know a real meeting of the minds had taken place. You can't make this stuff up. The glow on her face as she returned to our room to tell me said it all.
Let me emphasize that this was not a political meeting, or anything like it; its sole purpose was spiritual, which is all I feel led to share as far as details or its reason for gathering. But therein also lies a clue, I think. Someone mentioned AA; other examples of gatherings might be a rock concert, a poker club, any large or small gathering of like-minded attendees, even a sporting event (though those can be controversial, too).
The purpose being, not to change anyone's mind, but to simply be together and do something together. At that 'miracle session' above, one of the Charlie Kirk admirers paused for a moment before turning to my wife, after she pointed out the need to stop blaming victims of abuse (domestic or other), and said something like: "You're absolutely right! We should defend people who have been wrongly mistreated."
You're on the right track, Tom. I hope and pray your neighbor sees and accepts real, material changes in his life, and lives to see it, whether his politics ever change or not. It's worth the self-examination in any case.
That’s such a powerful story,thank you for sharing it. What strikes me most is the quiet courage it takes to stay in those rooms, to keep showing up when the air is thick with unspoken history. What you describe,that “miracle session” is exactly what I keep hoping for: moments where humanity breaks through the noise. Where people remember that compassion isn’t partisan, and that listening itself can be an act of grace. You and your wife lived that truth. It gives me hope.
I'm glad! I will add that another purpose of that weekend was to spread hope, after we all went home and engaged with others. I know the host and facilitator would definitely agree. If a line was drawn in the sand, it wasn't between the Trump camp and the rest of us, or vice versa. It was drawn encircling the entire meeting. These things start small.
That lack of connection is truly the basis for this nation’s great troubles. I sometimes think that the USA is too large geographically and in terms of population, and too diverse culturally to hold together. That what’s happening now, is we have reached some kind of social critical mass that has blown apart the seams that hold us together. Maybe the solution is to break into nation states and let California and Mississippi each govern as their populations require and believe in.
I have tried to have gentle, respectful conversations with MAGA, and I always get withdrawal from them (or stubborn, defensive pushback) when the topic becomes socio-political. I have given up. I believe they don’t want to have such conversations with me.
I've felt that same temptation,maybe we're just too big, too divided to hold together. But I think the fractures run through communities, not just between states. Breaking apart might just move the problem around rather than solve it.
The withdrawal and pushback you describe,I've experienced exactly that. It's deeply discouraging. I think the real crisis isn't about size or diversity, but about our capacity to see each other as human. That's something we'd need to rebuild whether we're one nation or fifty.
You and I are of the mind to rebuild our interconnectedness with others. But there are so many who are not interested and never will be. We can work harder, you and I, but it will take nearly all of us to make it happen. I don’t see how it can if so many are dug in.
This nation has been politically gerrymandered (and labeled) into binary states, so I take your point about “size not mattering,” which makes me more convinced that we need to reframe our governance away from a two party legislative model. The whole country has been engineered to view itself as constantly in a tug of war against our own neighbors. There seems little opportunity for compromise.
I think I have finally sussed out the difference between Americans and us Canadians thanks to this, the best article I think I have ever read on the subject. It is this: I am quite glad to help pay for heart surgery for someone way on the other side of our huge country whom I will never meet(I live in Southeastern British Columbia), not only because his or her taxes go toward paying for my healthcare, but because why the f*ck wouldn’t you? I don’t think that most Americans, even so-called progressives, really feel this way in their heart of hearts. I think it might be what keeps you shackled to this insane individualism that has been drummed into you since birth.
Thank you for this ,you put it so clearly. That sense of shared responsibility, that simple “why wouldn’t you?” it’s what we’ve somehow lost here, and maybe what we most need to rediscover if we’re ever going to find our way back to each other.
Thank you. That was really heartfelt on my part. It just seems so simple, but a bridge too far for your society (not everyone I realize). We’re with you, the sane ones.
I love your essays Tom. And I think a lot about the pathologisation of dependency. The way our Europatriarchal societies have acculturated us all into striving for independence, and in the process glossed over the impossibility of that. We have been taught to be blind to our dependencies, to deny them, to externalise them in the balance sheets of our individualised worth. The truth is, as you point out, that we need each other. And that is true no matter where you sit on the fictional ladder of merit (or the fictional line of political poles). None of us exists in isolation, even though we’ve been behaviourally modified into believing we do, and more insidiously, that we should. Interdependence, not independence, is how we’ve survived. It’s just that we’ve erased our dependencies in our hero-based stories, on our CVs, in our minds, in our accounting systems. The shame of dependency is what Trump, and others like him, exploits. How might we lose our blinkers and see the lie of our separateness and the ways that we are culturally taught to uphold that lie?
You’re right, we are trained to erase our dependencies, to see them as weakness, when in fact they are what make us human. Every act of survival is also an act of interdependence, but the culture tells us to hide that, to pass as “self-made.” And yes, Trump (and others like him) weaponize that shame, because it keeps us isolated and afraid to admit our needs. Maybe the first step toward losing the blinkers is simply to start telling the truth,out loud, in public,that none of us survives alone. That everything we’ve built has been built together. To honor dependency instead of hiding it.
I’ve read this twice and will likely read it a whole bunch more times. It really resonated to say the least. I’m going to make it a point to reach out to my father in law that lives next door. He is a good man that got sucked into the cult. I’ve had the mindset of “why bother” because I’ve been self-assured that I’m on the right side of history and he’s not. I’m going start communication with him. Isolation is not working but I wasn’t sure, like you, as to what to do. I know now that silence and isolation are not the solutions that will solve this, they’re easier though…. But I’ve never been to big of a fan on taking the easy way out. Thank you again- it could help a lot of folks.
Excellent post, Mr. Joad.
One of the problems with befriending the Trump supporters is that they are victims of a delusion (as well as a grift, as evidenced by a thirty-dollar flag purchased by somebody who likely economizes on everything because of necessity).
Speaking with a delusional individual can be hazardous, especially when the delusion is Trump. Contradictions arise from everything the man does because there is no substance to him other than greed, venality, and psychosis (as well as increasing indicators of severe dementia), and when faced with contradictions a person suffering from a delusion is unpredictable.
The exception happens when there is a catastrophic event that affects everyone, such as the derecho that destroyed much of Cedar Rapids in 2020. In the midst of covid uncertainty and a conflict-filled election, neighbors came together to help one another. We had no cell service and no media (no electricity or internet at all for many days, in fact). Trees were down everywhere, roads were blocked, and nobody knew what to do except help one another. The differences dropped away.
I buy eggs and smoked fish from a guy who wears a Trump hat. I remarked about the cost of eggs, appreciating how his were reasonably priced. He said in all earnestness that "He is doing all He can to bring down prices." I did not argue with him. He was wearing one of the 100.00 Trump hats with gold and flag motifs, a had sold at tremendous profit. He was proud of it. His house is clearly tumble-down, with a rotting roof and debris all over the yard. He is in poor health with a severely swollen leg and terrible tooth decay, wheezing and limping.
We share common humanity, and I feel pity for him because he bought into this idea.
Even though it's clearly wrong, he doubles down on it. This is what happened in Japan with the myth of Yamato Damashi which brokered a fight to the death on tiny islands, and in Germany with the Übermensch and Lebensraum myths that allowed most Germans to turn a blind eye to genocide.
Humans are uniquely susceptible to poison ideas, and very slow to come around when they are definitively proven wrong.
You’ve articulated something essential about the danger and the tragedy of delusion. Once a person’s sense of identity becomes bound to a false story, the story can’t be questioned without threatening the self. The cruelty of the Trump mythology is that it preys on pain, on the very human need to feel seen and valued, then turns that need into a weapon.
What you describe about the derecho is what I keep coming back to as well: when the power went out, the illusions did too. Without the constant hum of outrage or the theater of belonging to one side or another, people simply responded to one another as neighbors. Stripped of the spectacle, we remembered how interdependent we actually are.
I think that’s the quiet work ahead,finding ways for people to meet again in that space before the stories start up, where decency and need speak a language older than
It is frustrating and ironic that we have a greater capability to connect with others than at any time in human history, and yet are becoming more and more isolated and disconnected from others outside our tribes.
such an interesting and thought-provoking article. It has changed my perspective on things already. There are some people we will never reach, but if we can find the connection with people different from us, if we can build that community, we can make things happen. As a matter of fact, I have a friend who supports Trump. However, he brings me groceries. He gave me a pack of Hillary Clinton playing cards a Kamala Harris mug and a Biden Harris hat he knows my views and I know his but for some reason they don’t seem to matter to us as friends we discuss community and we discuss Alcoholics Anonymous maybe that’s the difference we are in AA where we live by principles and 12 steps and have empty for each other's situations. When I went through a domestic violence situation he was there for me. His wife was there for me. They still are; they’re considered like family and yet we have completely different political views. Yet he knows I’m bisexual and knows I have pride flags in my yard and on my house and he brings me pride jewelry that he finds at thrift shops. So it is possible it is possible to connect.
This is everything. Thank you for sharing this.
You've done what I'm still trying to figure out how to do,you've actually stopped refusing. And the detail that hits hardest is him bringing you pride jewelry from thrift shops. He sees you. Fully. Disagrees with you politically and still sees you.
AA might be the key. You're both practicing principles that require acknowledging vulnerability, admitting you can't do it alone, showing up for each other in concrete ways. The 12 steps are literally a framework for connection that bypasses ideology,you're united by shared struggle and the daily choice to help each other survive it.
That's not a metaphor for politics. That's the actual thing. Mutual aid. Showing up with groceries. Being there during domestic violence. That's solidarity in its most real form, and it turns out political disagreement can coexist with it when the relationship is built on something deeper than opinions.
What strikes me is that he doesn't just tolerate your identity,he celebrates it. Brings you pride jewelry. That's not cognitive dissonance he's managing. That's him choosing you over his politics. Choosing connection over ideology.
You're right that some people we'll never reach. But you've proven the thing I was only theorizing about: when we stop refusing, when we actually build relationship through shared vulnerability and concrete mutual support, the political divisions don't disappear but they stop being the only thing that matters.
This gives me hope. Real hope, not abstract hope. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this reply. I do think AA helps us. I wish the whole world had the 12 steps. Thank you. You lit up my day
I absolutely love that you shared this, Suzanne. Tangible proof that people can and do rise against their ideologies, a socially accepted bias that they might otherwise support. I, too, wish that the world vibrated to the energies of the 12 steps. That in acknowledging our own vulnerabilities, we're less likely to pull away from others out of fear. You and your friend are modeling the kind of courage that could heal a nation (a world in fact) in crisis. Well done, you :)
Thank you so much for your lovely reply and kindness 💜✨
Thank you for your bravery in articulating something that has nagged at me for years, but could not put into words. This is a brave essay, one I’ll come back to a few times. Thank you
Thank you for such a kind and generous note. It means a lot that it resonated with you,sometimes we write just to give shape to what’s been quietly tugging at us for years. I’m grateful it found its echo in you.
Until a few years ago I could talk politics and religion with almost any of my family, friends, neighbors, etc. It was rarely a judgment conversation it was the sharing of dialogue and perspective. Now we’re in the ‘chicken or the egg theory’ of who doesn’t want to politely engage and there is no right answer regardless of who wants to point fingers where. I miss those days. I miss civility. I miss engagement.
You have touched a live wire this time.
We all hurt. We are consumed with protecting what little personal power we have left.
What an absolute treasure you have uncovered here.
Thank you so much!!
This is profound. Thank you for making me uncomfortable. I need to be. Everything really comes down to a decision. We can’t wait for some things to feel right; we just need to decide. Even about the way we’ll respond to another’s decision.
Thank you for this. You’re right,so much of life really does come down to a decision. I often want to wait until I feelready, but the truth is, the deciding comes first, the feeling follows. And you’re right too about how we respond to others’ choices,that’s a decision as well. I’m grateful you said this, even if it stirs discomfort. It’s the kind of reminder I need.
Wow. This was phenomenal. Should be an op-ed nationwide.
Thank you!!
Saved it, archived it and sent it to my email too.
IT DOESN’T END UNTIL THE FAT PEDO DEMENTED ORANGE KING IS REMOVED
Well written, as always. I for one, am always for connecting and reconnecting. Don't even worry about the politics - that comes later.
https://open.substack.com/pub/reclaimingthewe/p/how-to-talk-with-your-trump-supporting?r=i27pk&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
My wife and I had a very interesting encounter at a meeting where several people approached us expressing admiration and sorrow over Charlie Kirk, the weekend right after he was killed. Neither of us had previous experience with that kind of face to face with supporters of "the other side", and my wife - a Black woman - was definitely not prepared for that.
We more or less tag-teamed part of the time, one of us taking a break in our room, while the other engaged with people. At one session, miraculously, people understood clearly where she was coming from, and she them. I didn't have to be there to know a real meeting of the minds had taken place. You can't make this stuff up. The glow on her face as she returned to our room to tell me said it all.
Let me emphasize that this was not a political meeting, or anything like it; its sole purpose was spiritual, which is all I feel led to share as far as details or its reason for gathering. But therein also lies a clue, I think. Someone mentioned AA; other examples of gatherings might be a rock concert, a poker club, any large or small gathering of like-minded attendees, even a sporting event (though those can be controversial, too).
The purpose being, not to change anyone's mind, but to simply be together and do something together. At that 'miracle session' above, one of the Charlie Kirk admirers paused for a moment before turning to my wife, after she pointed out the need to stop blaming victims of abuse (domestic or other), and said something like: "You're absolutely right! We should defend people who have been wrongly mistreated."
You're on the right track, Tom. I hope and pray your neighbor sees and accepts real, material changes in his life, and lives to see it, whether his politics ever change or not. It's worth the self-examination in any case.
That’s such a powerful story,thank you for sharing it. What strikes me most is the quiet courage it takes to stay in those rooms, to keep showing up when the air is thick with unspoken history. What you describe,that “miracle session” is exactly what I keep hoping for: moments where humanity breaks through the noise. Where people remember that compassion isn’t partisan, and that listening itself can be an act of grace. You and your wife lived that truth. It gives me hope.
I'm glad! I will add that another purpose of that weekend was to spread hope, after we all went home and engaged with others. I know the host and facilitator would definitely agree. If a line was drawn in the sand, it wasn't between the Trump camp and the rest of us, or vice versa. It was drawn encircling the entire meeting. These things start small.
That lack of connection is truly the basis for this nation’s great troubles. I sometimes think that the USA is too large geographically and in terms of population, and too diverse culturally to hold together. That what’s happening now, is we have reached some kind of social critical mass that has blown apart the seams that hold us together. Maybe the solution is to break into nation states and let California and Mississippi each govern as their populations require and believe in.
I have tried to have gentle, respectful conversations with MAGA, and I always get withdrawal from them (or stubborn, defensive pushback) when the topic becomes socio-political. I have given up. I believe they don’t want to have such conversations with me.
I've felt that same temptation,maybe we're just too big, too divided to hold together. But I think the fractures run through communities, not just between states. Breaking apart might just move the problem around rather than solve it.
The withdrawal and pushback you describe,I've experienced exactly that. It's deeply discouraging. I think the real crisis isn't about size or diversity, but about our capacity to see each other as human. That's something we'd need to rebuild whether we're one nation or fifty.
You and I are of the mind to rebuild our interconnectedness with others. But there are so many who are not interested and never will be. We can work harder, you and I, but it will take nearly all of us to make it happen. I don’t see how it can if so many are dug in.
This nation has been politically gerrymandered (and labeled) into binary states, so I take your point about “size not mattering,” which makes me more convinced that we need to reframe our governance away from a two party legislative model. The whole country has been engineered to view itself as constantly in a tug of war against our own neighbors. There seems little opportunity for compromise.
You took a big swing here, Tom, and I'm glad you did.
Well done.
Thank you my friend!!
I think I have finally sussed out the difference between Americans and us Canadians thanks to this, the best article I think I have ever read on the subject. It is this: I am quite glad to help pay for heart surgery for someone way on the other side of our huge country whom I will never meet(I live in Southeastern British Columbia), not only because his or her taxes go toward paying for my healthcare, but because why the f*ck wouldn’t you? I don’t think that most Americans, even so-called progressives, really feel this way in their heart of hearts. I think it might be what keeps you shackled to this insane individualism that has been drummed into you since birth.
Thank you for this ,you put it so clearly. That sense of shared responsibility, that simple “why wouldn’t you?” it’s what we’ve somehow lost here, and maybe what we most need to rediscover if we’re ever going to find our way back to each other.
Thank you. That was really heartfelt on my part. It just seems so simple, but a bridge too far for your society (not everyone I realize). We’re with you, the sane ones.
I love your essays Tom. And I think a lot about the pathologisation of dependency. The way our Europatriarchal societies have acculturated us all into striving for independence, and in the process glossed over the impossibility of that. We have been taught to be blind to our dependencies, to deny them, to externalise them in the balance sheets of our individualised worth. The truth is, as you point out, that we need each other. And that is true no matter where you sit on the fictional ladder of merit (or the fictional line of political poles). None of us exists in isolation, even though we’ve been behaviourally modified into believing we do, and more insidiously, that we should. Interdependence, not independence, is how we’ve survived. It’s just that we’ve erased our dependencies in our hero-based stories, on our CVs, in our minds, in our accounting systems. The shame of dependency is what Trump, and others like him, exploits. How might we lose our blinkers and see the lie of our separateness and the ways that we are culturally taught to uphold that lie?
You’re right, we are trained to erase our dependencies, to see them as weakness, when in fact they are what make us human. Every act of survival is also an act of interdependence, but the culture tells us to hide that, to pass as “self-made.” And yes, Trump (and others like him) weaponize that shame, because it keeps us isolated and afraid to admit our needs. Maybe the first step toward losing the blinkers is simply to start telling the truth,out loud, in public,that none of us survives alone. That everything we’ve built has been built together. To honor dependency instead of hiding it.
I’ve read this twice and will likely read it a whole bunch more times. It really resonated to say the least. I’m going to make it a point to reach out to my father in law that lives next door. He is a good man that got sucked into the cult. I’ve had the mindset of “why bother” because I’ve been self-assured that I’m on the right side of history and he’s not. I’m going start communication with him. Isolation is not working but I wasn’t sure, like you, as to what to do. I know now that silence and isolation are not the solutions that will solve this, they’re easier though…. But I’ve never been to big of a fan on taking the easy way out. Thank you again- it could help a lot of folks.